Fear, bills, and babies: A conversation with Adulthood

By David Olvera

Photos by Julie Santiago

Upon visiting some friends that moved back to Los Angeles recently, magical phenomena happened. Sitting in their kitchen as they prepared dinner, the negative space of the room contorted and retracted back into itself without a sound. From the newly created void emerged a creature never before seen. 

To my shock and bewilderment I saw a stormcloud form within Michelle and Ricardo’s kitchen. The gray mass rained job applications, its deep murky hail with the color of coal carried tiny shreds of bills, jury duty notices, and forms I have yet to understand. The sound that accompanied it was anything but thunder. For instead of thunderous explosions, the cloud boomed with sounds of babies crying, phones ringing, tires screeching, and sobs. 

However, while I was puzzled in horror, I noticed something strange about how everyone else in the room reacted. Ricardo and Michelle did not seem nearly as scared as I was. Ricardo seemed to look up and down at the negative space as if he was staring at something tall and lanky. He explained that he saw a camera with legs that seemed too ambitious and hyper. 

Michelle seemed to be the most at peace, she explained that she saw a figure with little to no details. Almost like looking at a statue where most of the paint has eroded away. Michelle said that the figure carried a baby, she was a mother, who looked tired but content. Shortly after, the creature spoke in a raspy croak with a higher pitch than expected. 

“Hello children, I am Adulthood. I am not here to hurt you, I only wish to speak with you two.”

The words beamed into our minds as they echoed within my skull.

The cloud extended a section of its gloomy haze and pointed at Michelle and Ricardo. I imagine their own versions of Adulthood did the same thing. 

“As for you,” said the cloud turning to me. “You may watch as our time for conversation has yet to come.” 

Adulthood explained that it attempts to check in on most of its children as they begin their journey into the real world. It comes to those who are about to start their long trial of life and that Michelle and Ricardo were at that point. I documented the conversation, and here is what was said. 

Adulthood: Michelle, please tell me, how was college? What did you major in? Are you working within the field now?

Michelle looked taken back, but not afraid. Maybe her version of Adulthood had a sweeter voice than my own.

Michelle: I majored in psychology. I guess technically I am still working in that field, as an office tech, technically, that's not in my job description. But because of my background, since I was 18, I was working with individuals with disabilities. I worked with all age groups, and I was a preschool teacher. And that was really, really fun for a while. But now I am supporting the special education department at John Adams specifically. So I guess technically, I'm using it. But again, if I went to any other school, I probably wouldn't be there. It just so happened that the office tech that they were missing was the one that was working with special (education).

Adulthood: Interesting, so while you have a degree in psychology, you don’t technically use it?

Michelle: Not technically, no. 

The cloud seemed to be puzzled as its thunder stopped being so aggressive and more consistent with what you’d expect a cloud's thunder to sound like. Perhaps it was confused by Michelle’s answer. 

Adulthood: Do you enjoy working in this field?

Michelle: Yes, education is fun. And I always wanted to work with middle school kids, because I think that that's like one of the hardest times in people's lives, because you're no longer a child per se. But you're still naive enough to be like, dude you just please, I'm not trying to annoy you. I know you had a hard day. I know that math is hard. But if you could just put your clothes away, that would be so good for everyone involved. So yeah, it's my favorite age group. They're very misunderstood. So part of the reason that I wanted to work actually at John Adams, and I did tell them was I want to be a school psychologist. So this is my first intro to working with that age group.

Adulthood: So you don’t use your degree much, do you need this degree to work there?

Michelle: No, not as an office technician. 

Adulthood then turned to face Ricardo, maybe he saw the camera flash as it moved towards him. Ricardo seemed stable but on guard towards his wacky walking camera. 

Adulthood: Ricardo, it is your turn. While I do know many things I am not omniscient, I understand you did not finish college, why?

Ricardo took a breath in. 

Ricardo: Yeah, um, honestly, before I even like, went to college, when I was in high school, I didn't want to go to college. It's not something that I was planning for. So when I left high school, I just worked. And then after about a year, my parents were like, at least try it and just give it a shot. And they weren't pressuring me or anything. It was more of like, just to experience it, see if you actually like it, or if you don't. And so I said, well, I will go ahead and go for it. So when I applied, I didn't know what I wanted to major in. Like I didn't, I had no idea. Honestly, college is a very new thing to me. And I looked at a lot of different schools outside of the areas where I lived in just because I wanted to get out of there. So I was like, you know, this could be an opportunity for me to actually leave town and live somewhere else for a bit. So I applied to different areas, and eventually got into CSUMB and I did a year there. When I went there at first I, unidentified or unknown like for your majors? 

Michelle: Unspecified. 

Ricardo: Yes, so I went in unspecified and then halfway through my first semester, I talked to my counselor and told her, you know, I came here kind of wanting to do more art stuff. But kind of figured like anyone can really do art because it's subjective. So I asked for a path for computer science. Because I enjoy computers so why not get into that. And then my second semester, I took one computer science class, and that was fun. I liked it. But unfortunately, I just wasn't doing well in classes. I wasn't showing up. Like, I very much enjoyed the social aspect of college, but I didn't so much enjoy the like, classes, the work. Yeah. Personally, I just didn't, I wanted to just get more into the computer science classes, but I knew I needed to get my GEs (general education) done first. 

Ricardo: I really didn't want to do it. So after that year, I left CSUMB. And then I did community college instead to see if that could be a little better. Also, you know, it's less money. Funny enough, I went to community college for two years, and I have no debt from there. I only have debt from CSUMB. But I did two years and then I just noticed a pattern that I just wasn't, I wasn't in it. I was like, “Oh, this would be super cool.” But I just wasn't interested. And I would either fail a class because I wasn't doing all the work or yeah. So after two years, I kind of just gave up on it and just stopped going. But at that point I had a better paying job. And it was consistent, and it could lead off into a career. So I figured, I'm here so I guess I’ll just stay here. 

Adulthood seemed to be stunned at Ricardo’s answer, maybe it pondered how someone becomes an adult without college. 

Adulthood: Walk me through that day where you decided college was not going to work for you. What did that day look like for you?

Ricardo: I was actually in mid semester, and I just stopped going to all classes, I just stopped communicating with professors, I stopped communicating with everything until Michelle, because we were talking about it. And she would say maybe like, you know, take a class, maybe take like one class a semester, maybe see if that's better for you. And I did that. That was like that semester, I was taking like two or three, two classes, I think. And I just wasn't, I don't know, I just wasn't interested. So I just told her, “You know what, I'm not gonna continue with it.” And she's like, that's fine. You know, whatever you want to do. And she respected that. I think it was (hard) for my family. It was harder to tell them just because I know that they really wanted me to go and there was no way to do this. But ultimately, they didn't judge me. They were just like, you know, you tried it and that's all we asked. 

Adulthood: You tried. 

Ricardo: Yeah, they were like, yeah, you're fine, it's okay. Like, if you don't want to continue with this. That's okay. So I stopped, I stopped going in general, and I just started working full time. At that time, I was working at the Monterey Bay Aquarium as a membership associate, or membership assistant. And pretty much was just working in an office where it was possible for me to just keep working my way up to management and stuff like that. So that's kind of where I was like, okay, well, I make better money than I had before. So I'll just stay here for now.

The room seemed to have a calmer energy than before. Slowly Adulthood became easier to talk to, the cloud changed into a clearer color than before, and the rain and hail slowly came to a stop.. Ricardo and Michelle became less defensive and more comfortable with the cloud, almost like they were talking to an old friend. 

And Adulthood seemed to do the same, its questions grew less formal and more curious. 

Adulthood: It is always so interesting to hear people's stories about college not working out for them. 

Ricardo: Yeah, I just kept noticing the pattern like. Okay, every single semester was the same thing. I'd be excited to start. And I would be in it. And I was like, yes, this is what I want to do. And then mid semester, I was like, this is too much. I don't want to do this anymore. I don't know. I don't know what happened. And… 

Michelle interjected.

Michelle: I kind of noticed, so the second semester and correct me if I'm wrong, but his financial aid didn't go through. Because FAFSA asked if you're independent. I don't know if you guys have experienced it, but I remember, he was independent on taxes, but they're still like we need your parents' stuff, which made it super difficult.

Ricardo: That was at CSUMB

Michelle: And that was at CSUMB. So, eventually that second semester when you were trying, I think that was the last semester that you tried. That first year that he would get up, he would try to go into those classes, but constantly getting told, “Oh, you're probably gonna get dropped.” “Oh, you're not registered. You can't be in this class, you can't do that.” And it was so frustrating because he was already there for the semester. He already talked to everybody about everything. And it was still like, I can't do this. I'm independent. You shouldn't need my mom's stuff. And they're like, “No, we still need your mom’s stuff.” 

Adulthood: Would you say this took a big part of your motivation away, Ricardo?

Ricardo: Yeah, it was really frustrating because when I was in that position, I was going back and forth with two different departments. And they were like, “No, you need to go to financial aid.” Financial aid was like, “No, you need to go to admissions.” And they just kept sending back and forth. And I'm like, “Alright, you guys keep sending me back to the same place and I go there and I'm gonna come here. I need to know where I need to go.” Because none of this is helping. I'm going in circles right now. That wasn't a big help at all.

Adulthood: Yes, if your ambition is already dying out. 

Ricardo: Yeah.

Michelle: It’s discouraging. Because it's like, okay, you're really just making me feel like a number. Like that's all I am is the money when I have this awesome mind that wants to do something, but no one was helping and that was that was hard.

Adulthood paused, and it recollected itself as it mulled over what was said. It then turned to Michelle as she continued to cook. 

Adulthood: So then Michelle, would you say, out of high school, that you were planning on going to college?

Michelle: Yeah, and I had absolutely no ambition for it.

Adulthood looked completely confused, what did Michelle mean?

Adulthood: So you, you were, okay…

Michelle: I planned to go because I was told that's what I was supposed to do. So I applied, I got into every place I applied to because they were all Cal States, and I was already a California resident. And then I picked CSUMB. And my mom's like, “Are you sure you want to go there?” And I looked at her like, I don't give a flying fuck, I was just supposed to go to college. Everyone told me that's what I was supposed to do.

Again, Adulthood paused, as did I. Everyone used to have dream schools. Movies and media portraying college acceptance letters always show actors heartbroken when they didn’t get into Harvard. Did the idea of dream schools and ambition for college die out? 

Adulthood: So you had no preference in terms of campus?

Michelle: No, I wanted to go to Sonoma, but they waitlisted me then accepted me. But again, I just wanted to get out of the city. Lo and behold, that's where I was supposed to be. At least for a little bit.

Adulthood: So there was no ambition for college, it was more family pressure?

Michelle: Like most things. 

Adulthood was on the retreat now. The cloud seemed saddened at Michelle’s lack of ambition, perhaps Michelle’s stone statue and babe lost their stoic look. The camera with legs clicked to Ricardo.

Adulthood: Ricardo from where you stand now as you have decided not to finish college, what are the pros and cons? We’ll start with the pros. 

Ricardo: Pros. Yeah, definitely not as much debt. I guess for me personally, just like having that freedom. Because when you're going to school, you know, you’re kind of on a routine schedule, and you have all these things to do and get done. But when you're not, I mean, that can be said for work and everything else. But for me, it's just one thing, it's one less thing to worry about. And I guess..

Adulthood interjected. 

Adulthood: I was going to say, with your photography skills, I doubt any classes would teach you anything. 

Ricardo: Yeah, as far as going. I think that's why I switched my major and went into computer science totally. I can learn (photography/art) all this myself. And like, given you can learn anything by yourself, if you get the right books, and I mean, the internet has so much stuff.

Michelle: YouTube University.

A noise emitted from the cloud, an almost jovial croak, did it laugh?

Ricardo: Exactly. But I just figured out like, you know, I might as well make it something that I'm kind of interested in. And I would at least have a stepping stone here to help me learn that. But ultimately, computer science was; it was not like, oh my god, I'm super passionate about this. It was more like, Okay, I'll do this and see where it goes. But, I just thought it was really just kind of like, I don't have too much debt and I don't really have to. To then kind of have that freedom. 

Ricardo: The cons I would say. Honestly. I will say even though to this day, like finding jobs, I'm looking for jobs that are more on photography. But if I fail, I feel if I would have stuck with the computer science route, I would have an easier time finding higher paying jobs. But that's just me thinking like, that's a possibility. That could honestly be wrong, because I also know it's really hard to get a job these days. But I have seen that like, even in photography as well, trying to find something, or work for someone, some places, some companies are asking that you have a degree in some sort of art. And because I don't have that; I still go for them hoping the experience kind of helps me. But ultimately, when I first started applying to these positions, I was kind of let down and I just didn't want to apply to them at all. Because I was like, Well, I don't have that. So I can't do that. So I felt like my opportunities were very slim. As if unless I had a degree even if it was like in anything like, I feel just having a degree would help. And I feel that honestly just helps me try to find a job that's paying more than what an entry level position would. 

Adulthood: Michelle, this is a three part question. Here is the first question. What do you think the definition of an adult is?

Michelle answered after a small pause.

Michelle: When my mother's assistance is appreciated, and not needed.

Adulthood: Concise. So lack of parental support makes someone an adult?

Michelle: Not lack of, but I think just like, when I don't have to ask for… “Holy crap, they're about to overdraft my account.” Or when my debts paid off. We moved home, because I missed my family. But also, we weren't gonna be able to do anything. Without being able to pay off our debt. We were living at our means. Which is so sad that so many people these days are living like that anyway. But it doesn't work, you have to live below your means if you're going to get a savings, if you're going to be able to retire at an appropriate time. If you even just want to go to the next state over you need to have some kind of financial support. And there was just absolutely no way for us to do that. You know, so I guess I'm always going to need my parents, we're always gonna need guidance. I mean, everybody does. You don't know everything. They don't know everything. But I guess it's just when I could take it and be like, I don't need this and be able to give it to my kids or use it to take her (Michelle’s mother) out to dinner or, you know, just when it's not needed. It's just like, I can listen, I could hear, I can take it, and it's just like, that was such a good conversation.

Adulthood: So the idea of want versus need. Okay, that being said, do you consider yourself an adult?

Michelle: Um, to an extent. I mean, I do the nine to five. I’m engaged, and that’s a pretty adult thing. I guess I'm just not at the point where I'd like to be but then again, is anyone ever really at the point where they feel really like yeah, I did it. I made it because no matter how much we say, “Oh, we shouldn't be comparing ourselves, I shouldn't compare it.” Everyone compares themselves to other people, everyone. Everyone has a little bit of a thing.

Adulthood seemed to enjoy this response, it grew more enthusiastic. Indeed, the image of an adult is changing with time, does working 9-5 make you an adult? What about marriage? When do you earn the label?

Adulthood: This is why I wanted to speak with you. The idea of adults is shifting, what makes someone an adult? Most people qualify it to financial stability, but you two have made adult choices already, you moved out, you have lived together, you are engaged. Yet despite these things the title of adult feels out of reach. 

Michelle: I don't know, I was having a conversation with my soon to be sister in law. And she said, and I quote, “Sometimes I forget, you're an adult.” And I'm like, let me tell you something. Sometimes I do too. Dude, there's times when you guys (soon to be sister in law’s family) are over. I'm like, Oh, crap I'm supposed to make you guys food like this isn't so…  what do you eat? Like who wants to buy who wants to? It's like, oh crap. No, I'm the adult here. If anything happens, I have to shield them. I need to call their mom like I forgot about that. Because I've never had to.

Adulthood: You’re as old as you’ve ever been. 

Michelle: Yeah, exactly. 

Adulthood: So Michelle, would you say there was a moment where you realized I am…

Michelle: Old? Yeah.

Adulthood: I was going to say adult. 

Michelle laughed at Adulthood’s shy tone and replied. 

Michelle: With his (Ricado’s) siblings. I have it all the time; we got into a car accident. And I cannot tell you the dread, the deep dread. My heart stopped. I just can't explain to you and they're not even my children. But it was just the fact that in my care, they could have possibly gotten hurt. But I didn't even want to turn around. And that's when I was like, Whoa, this is a kid. This is an emotion that you wouldn't be able to feel at 15 years old.

Adulthood seemed sad again, but this time it also had a feel of proud understanding towards Michelle.

Adulthood: You would still be scared for yourself. 

Michelle: Exactly. I didn't even care about myself. I could have been bleeding. Ricardo could have been bleeding. The children were in the back. Were they okay? You know? That was crazy.

Adulthood: That’s scary.

Michelle: Never want to do that again. 

Indeed, fear changes over time. As you age, you realize that your fear of the dark was actually fear of the unknown. Fear for security matures from your own safety to the ones you love, so then if adulthood is not financial stability, is it emotional growth and the alchemization of fear?

Adulthood then blinked its shutter towards Ricardo again, I wondered how Ricardo was able to talk to such a ridiculous looking thing. 

Adulthood: Ricardo I have seen your photo work and it is good, portfolio good. Would you trade in your experience for a degree in an art? We’ll call it a bachelor's degree.

Ricardo: No, no, no. 

Adulthood: Why?

Ricardo: Because I feel that when you are working towards your degree, and once you have it, yes, it will help get jobs and it will help maybe in the qualifying stages of trying to get a job. Like oh hey, they have a degree let's put them over here and people that don't have a degree get rid of it. We don't want to see that resume. Yeah, that'll help but I think ultimately like experience matters way more than a piece of paper. Like in my case, if I was working towards photography, and trying to get a degree in that art, I would be working or studying in different classes working towards becoming a better photographer. 

Ricardo: But you won't have that experience of working a wedding or working for a company or like just shooting product photos. So you can have the degree but you'll have no experience so when you go into it, this is different because no one's holding your hand or no one's kind of like instructing you. But the more you use your camera every day, whether you're working for a company or not; whether you're just doing it for fun, you are going to learn better composition. You're gonna learn how to take better pictures just from using your camera every day compared to not or something like that. So I always thought experience still outweighs a degree.

Adulthood: Okay, well I asked this to Michelle already. Ricardo, what do you think the definition of adult is? If your response is similar to Michelle's, that is okay. 

Ricardo: I think the definition of an adult is like, just…

Adulthood interjected. 

Adulthood: I would argue that you live really far away from home, and while you are technically living under someone else's roof, you are fairly disconnected from your own family. 

Ricardo: I would say, just really being able to be independent. I used to think of it as financial independence and just independence in every aspect of life. But now that I've grown older, I'm an adult. I don't think it has so much to do with that. I think those are just like, simple ways to put it. I think it's more of just having an independence in general of like yourself, and being able to do these things for yourself. It's just like, you know, being able to cook for yourself, or being able to have a job. Being like a … I hate saying this, but like, a working member of society. And I guess, also just kind of learning from all of your experiences, from when you were a baby to now. Kind of just like thinking back.

Ricardo: I've noticed, for me personally, I feel like as an adult, I've reflected a lot and kind of thought back a lot. And I used to think like, oh, once I have this much money in my bank account, and I have my own car, and I have my own this and my own that, like, cool. I'm an adult. Yeah, it's so much different. You make mistakes and that's okay because you learn from them and that just makes you wiser.

Adulthood shifted as it was presented with this new definition, wisdom. Maybe wisdom gives someone the mantle of adult, maybe money is irrelevant when compared to knowledge and experience. Maybe adulthood is a spectrum and we get more and more “adult” as we age and dry up. Isn’t that why we respect our elders? 

Adulthood: So do you feel like an adult?

Ricardo: Yes. And no at the same time, it's kind of weird. I guess, life just goes really fast because I'm 25 now, and it feels weird to say that, because I don't feel 25. To put it in perspective when I was little and I looked at my parents, I thought they knew everything. They knew how to do everything, they knew how to make dinner. They know how to drive a car and how to shop and buy groceries. And they know what ingredients to put for cooking, all this stuff. And when I got older, like a couple years ago, maybe three, four years ago now. I learned that like my parents like, while yeah, they know a lot of stuff. They kind of were just winging it. 

Ricardo: And honestly, it blew my mind. Because like, I thought at some point, when I become an adult, I'm just gonna know everything. I'm good. But no, it's not like that. It's you kind of just winging it. No one knows. I feel like no one really knows. I shouldn't say everyone, but like, I feel myself, I don't really know what I'm doing. Like, I find purpose in the things that I do. But ultimately, if I'm doing them right or wrong, I don't know. I just know that I'm just doing what I think is best.

Adulthood nodded in agreement. We do what we think is best, it’s all we can do. 

Adulthood: So your definition is less financial and more about learning from experience and understanding that not knowing everything is okay. I like that. 

Ricardo: I can't remember the song, but it's by Kendrick Lamar. And he says it on To Pimp A Butterfly. It's like this whole song, he talks about that. He knows everything. He knows that because he made it big, he knows everything. But then, at some point in his life, he comes home to his mom. And he just realizes like, “I don't know anything.” And it's just like that, that's exactly it. As an adult, kids and people that are not over the age of what's considered an adult, feel that oh, yeah, once I'm that age, I'll know what I'm doing. But honestly I don't. I'm just kind of going along with life. I don't know what I'm gonna have for dinner. Like, that's how I'm going about it.

Michelle: We're 25 And we've never known less. Like how did I know more at 15 than I do now? Yeah, it's so funny.

Adulthood and I seemed to both be equally confused, how can two people who are going to be married not feel like adults? Surely the institution of college can give you wisdom, and it can give you the skills to not need your mom’s money. You spend years learning and working towards being a certified expert in a certain field, surely college is an adult production line that takes in teenagers and spits out adults. 

Adulthood: Michelle would you say the experience of college and graduating made you feel like an adult? 

Michelle: Oh, fuck no. It made me feel a little bit less certain of everything. Because like I said, I went because I was told that's what I needed to do. But I just do the shit I need to do. And honestly, it just made me feel more afraid. And less secure. I mean, even just our roommate situations, and I know everyone has roommate horror stories. It's just so weird. It was just weird. But no, I don't think that I learned a lot. I learned how to work with different people. And that was really cool. 

Adulthood: You wouldn’t say that makes you more of an adult?

Michelle: I can argue that I've always had to learn how to work with different people because I grew up on teams (sports).

Adulthood: And college did nothing different in that sense?

Michelle: No, I think the prompt changed, but the challenge remains the same. 

Adulthood: So when you were in college you didn’t feel like an adult?

Michelle: No. I felt like we were just a bunch of really big kids. There were some really nice professors. There were some not so nice professors. I felt like they were coming in doing their thing. And we just all kind of gathered to listen to them and said, “All right. What are we doing for dinner? Where am I going?” It was just a time filler. Okay, to me, it just felt like a job. It's a time filler. What am I going to do next?

“Interesting,” said Adulthood. The cloud seemed to be unsatisfied and surprised by their responses. It shifted and the room felt uncomfortable again, the being was uncertain. So if the college experience didn’t make people feel like adults during or after, what was the reason to go? What did having a degree do? What was the relationship between adulthood and college that we have seen time and time again? 

Adulthood: So to my understanding, it didn’t make you feel like an adult because all you had to do was follow this set path in front of you, all you had to do was walk forward. 

Michelle: So. I just had to get a degree. Okay. I could do that. I spent how many years of my life already going to school? Just doing school? Yeah. And at least this time, they have better books.

Adulthood: Okay then Michelle, while I am fairly sure I can guess your response, I am going to ask you the pros and cons of college. What are the pros of your college experience?

Michelle: I got to bypass any job application that says you need this many years of experience. 

Adulthood looked at Michelle, I imagine the stoic face of the statue remained flat as it said… “You got a checkmark.”

Michelle: I got a checkmark, I gotta pass, I got a free pass. But I'm gonna be honest, that has never, ever impressed anyone in a job interview. And I've had, I think, maybe 13 or 15 jobs in my entire life. That's a lot of jobs.

Adulthood: A lot of jobs and no one has been impressed?

Michelle: No, because they're just like, “Oh, you're in school? I have a degree. Yeah, that's fine. But what about this? Can you tell me a situation where you have different opinions between you and a co-worker? Can you give me a situation where you really needed to just put emotions aside and do this?”

Adulthood: You’re telling me that you've been interviewed upwards of 10 times? And not once has your degree been useful?

Michelle: Exactly.

Adulthood: Wow.

Michelle: Exactly. Just like you said, they only care about the experience. They've only ever cared about how I can handle a situation. And the fact that I have so many jobs prepared me for that, especially in regards to working with individuals with disabilities. But yeah.

Adulthood: So a degree gets you in the door, but the experience is what they actually value.

Adulthood seemed to be frustrated, but also disappointed. In Ricardo’s case there was experience, but no degree, no book smarts. In Michelle’s there was a degree but it served as a fast pass in the line to the roller coaster of employment, it did nothing to supplement the skills needed to work, and when jobs were landed, the degree was not the reason why. So what does one do? If adulthood isn’t about money, if it isn’t about emotions, if it doesn’t mean going to college, or having experience, what is it? Maybe to be an adult you take all of the aforementioned contradictions and make it work. 

If the college adult factory is churning out useless degrees, and the “real world” wants both the useless degree and 10 years of experience, then maybe there is an equation for adulthood to be found in what Michelle and Ricardo are saying. Maybe… 

Making the college degree and real experience contradicts work + emotional growth and alchemization of fear = a somewhat functioning older person who can kind of cook themselves food can be called an adult for the sake of labeling things. 

My formula thought process was interrupted as their conversation continued. 

Michelle: If I didn't have the support that I did, which a lot of students do not, I am very privileged, I mean, us being able to move home is a privilege. If I didn't have that... Some people need full time jobs. And they're going to school full time. That's two full time jobs. I did part time sometimes. And then I was able to save up. And then we have financial aid. And sometimes I give a nice little refund, my worry was rent, but I always had a mom that I could call up, if I really, really was struggling. Your parents (Ricardo’s) were down the street, guess who always has food for their children, families. We are so privileged in that respect. And if I didn't, if I wasn't able to have all of those jobs made, I wouldn't have fucking made it. There was no way. I was managing a program for adults with disabilities at 24. I had no business doing that. It was solely based on my experience that I was able to even make it.

Adulthood:  So then Michelle, how long have you been out of college? 

Michelle: What, three years, three years?

Adulthood: So what do you think the cons are for the chunk of your life dedicated to college? 

Michelle: The biggest con is that I have to pay more money to get more degrees.

Adulthood: You’re going back? 

Michelle: Oh, definitely.

Adulthood: Interesting.

Michelle: I want my doctorate. 

Adulthood: So you have to go back?

Michelle: I have to. So the biggest con is that I have to get into more debt. The second biggest con is that I don't want someone holding my hand. But I do really, really well with like, just, a guided learning like so here's your syllabus, great, I'm gonna be able to understand some stuff.

Michelle: So even if I wanted to, I wouldn't know where to start. Because I could put in a master's program for basics like 101 for college.

Adulthood: So how to even apply for it. 

Michelle: I wouldn't even know. Exactly.

Adulthood: You make it sound like it's not a choice to go back?

Michelle: It's not that it's not a choice. I mean, I want my doctorate so I have to go back.

Adulthood: So then, would you say your degree is useful now? Or do you think you'd need that doctor to make your degree useful?

Michelle: I think I need the doctorate to make my degree useful. I can't see patients without at least a master's. I can't work with students without at least a master's, even if I wanted to be a teacher. And I can't do anything without at least an extra two years of school actually serving the community in a way that I would find actually beneficial. So it's still useless until I get more. That's like the open door thing. Yeah, like it's just to get my master's.

So then maybe we had it all wrong, maybe the degree factory can be useful, if you get a doctorate, in a medical field, and go into massive debt. Maybe then the assembly line pushes out a full adult. 

Adulthood shifted again, I think it was content with its knowledge about college institutions, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. Some people finish, some don’t, some people use their degree, some don’t. The being simply knew college is not what it used to be, and the people who do go have a range of experiences that may or may not be used as they get older. 

So if college can push out useful degrees when the ripe conditions of debt and STEM fields are met, what are other ways to become adults if one does not want to go to college? 

Marriage and children. 

Adulthood: Michelle, you and Ricardo are getting married, how long have you two been together?

Michelle: Six years. This is gonna be our seventh. seventh anniversary. We're getting married. How cool is that?

Marriage and children were Adulthood’s last line of defense, surely this was the way to gain the mantle of the elusive adult. 

Adulthood: I would argue marriage is one of the most adult things you can do, walk me through the moment you decided to get married. 

Michelle: I've been telling him that I was gonna marry him since we were like, what? 19? 20?

Ricardo: Yeah.

Michelle:  I was like, “I want to.” And he was like, “I do too.” Like, so let's do it. He's like, “No we're too young.” Yeah. It's funny. “Do you think I want to get married?” “Yeah, but I need to propose.” Okay. “But can I just propose because I think I'm ready to do this now.” No. “I don't mind a long engagement.” No, no. “Okay.” Finally, that happened.

Michelle: But the fact that we were both willing to work on it. And we have talks almost every month, like, “Am I still making you happy? Do you still want this? And, you know, do you? Is this really like where you want to be? Am I? Are you sure that I'm your person?” And it doesn't matter if it would hurt if the other person said no, because ultimately, neither of us want each other in a relationship where we're not happy or we don't feel supported. So I guess that's how I knew.

Michelle:  I saw him at his worst. I've seen him at his worst. He saw me at my absolute worst. And I've also seen him at his best and I'm happy to and I'm happy to report that I get to help you get to your best and you get to help me. I graduated because of him, you know.

Adulthood: Does this communication you guys have make your love “adult” love?

Ricardo: So, communication is a big part in a lot of relationships, like being able to just be vulnerable with your partner. All the BS aside and pride and ego and all that to the side and actually look. For example, when one partner messes up, that partner should be able to say, “Hey, I'm sorry, I messed up.” Because you know, we’re human. There's an extent, of course. But I think that willingness to hear someone out and also wanting to work on it, like work on whatever was to happen, says a lot. Whether you're in a relationship for a year, or for 10 years.

Adulthood: Michelle I understand that you and Ricardo are going to try for kids soon, what is the cause of this choice since you both don’t feel like adults yet?

Michelle: Oh, yeah. And I don't think a kid is going to change that.

And with that, the last line of defense was decimated. How could planning for marriage and starting a family not make a couple, adults?

Adulthood looked bewildered and the cloud seemed to swell with rain and hail, and I waited for the explosion but all that came out was, “Interesting.”

Adulthood: Back up, it sounds like you have wanted kids for a long time.

Michelle: I've wanted to be a mom since I was a kid. Okay, so I wanted to be a mom. But there were some things that I wanted to do first, like, find a husband. Have a career. And if I don't have a career, then I still want to go to school. In fact, one of our goals is for me to be a stay at home mom, however, I'll still be getting my doctorate. I'm still gonna be a stay at home mom. But he fully supports that goal of mine, because that's been one since I was younger. Since we started dating. I always wanted my doctorate.

Adulthood: So then you can have children when the checklist is done? 

Michelle: No, because if it happened now, I think we're a lot more comfortable with it like even if it was an accident, we would want it. It's a hope and a dream. You know, I think he'd be an amazing dad. And I don't think I'd be a bad mom. And I just really like babies because they're just so cute. And they have big cheeks. And that's just so cool. And when I was a preschool teacher, I got to work with all the age groups. I got to work with the two year olds and I got to work with the five year olds. You ever held a baby? They're adorable. And they're so small. It's just such a trip and they're so funny. And adults are ginormous toddlers. I'm a ginormous toddler. I need emotional regulation, just like a two year old does. I just know how to not scream in the middle of a Target… And I just want a little friend.

Adulthood: But having a kid won’t make you feel like an adult?

Michelle: Yeah. Because anyone can make a child and have a child. And honestly, I don't think that there's one thing that makes you an adult, because I don't know everything. I'm not saying that having a kid is not going to open up my eyes to a whole bunch of wisdom and everything because that particular child is going to be a unique individual. And I'm going to be a unique mother to that child, their sibling is going to have a completely different mom because they're going to have different needs, you know? So it's not going to make me an adult, it'll make me more aware. It'll help me, you know, be a better person. I'll probably be able to see life more beautifully, because we're going to create it. Right, but I don't think it makes you more of an adult. Just a new perspective.

Maybe that’s it, perspective. If we are all just big toddlers no matter how old we get, maybe being an adult is all a matter of perspective. If college, experience, marriage, emotions, fear, or children don't make you an adult, then maybe we can bear the mantle of adult whenever we see fit. Perhaps there is no equation for adulthood. 

Adulthood: Okay Ricardo, so why do you want children, why do you want to be a dad? Try not to include Michelle’s desire for kids in your answer. 

Ricardo: Why do I want to have a kid? Yeah. Um, honestly, that's a really good question. I always wanted to have a family growing up.  Even like in high school and stuff like that, when I get older, I would like to have kids. I don't know when, but I'd like them. And I think it's just because having a family is like having a sense of community. You know you can have friends and stuff like that too, as like, you pick your own family, you know. Because friends can eventually be family-like. I have a friend that I consider my brother, and we're not related at all. But ultimately, I feel that having a family is like, it's a sense of community and is just like having a safe space.

Ricardo: Yeah, it's like having a safe space in the world, when there's things going on in the world, and you don't know where to go. You always have family, whether it be your own, whether it be chosen, whether it be by blood or not, stuff like that. I guess, like seeing my parents and the way they raised us and seeing them raise my siblings now too. Because I was a single child for like the longest, for like seven years. My mom and my dad had a child he had was my brother, he (Ricardo’s step-father) had a child with someone else. So he was six years younger than me. And then my mom and dad got together, they had kids of their own. So I have siblings that are like 10 to 12 years younger than me. So I grew up with that, like I changed all my siblings diapers, because like I was 10. And, you know, one of them was three, one was just born. 

Adulthood: Are you the oldest Ricardo?

Ricardo: Yeah. And so I would change the diapers for my younger siblings, my brother Poetic and my sister Nala. I, in a way feel like, not only am I like their sibling, but I also feel like I'm their parent. And honestly, it's just really cool. Because you just have like, a little human, just like chillin’ with you. Like, you can watch whatever you want (T.V.). A little regular human can’t complain and watches whatever you want to.

Adulthood: So it builds a sense of a safe community for you. 

Ricardo: Yeah. When Michelle and I got together, we had talked about kids and stuff like that and getting married. And we had this thing where we said that when we were 27 we were gonna start. 27? 26, (At) 26 start trying because she didn't want to have kids when she was in her 30s. But I remember we talked about it and she wanted it closer. She wanted to have it at 24 or 25.

Adulthood: Wow. 

Michelle: I would have started as soon as you told me.

Ricardo: Yeah, she wants kids right now. Like, whenever she can, she would love them right now. But for me, I wanted to wait. I think that was just because of my siblings. Because I was more of a parental figure to them, so I kind of already had that. And I want that. But I want a little bit of myself now. Like, I got a little bit of myself as a kid. And then I got that. And then as an adult, I kind of wanted to separate myself from family and just kind of be on my own. It’s all right, it's kind of mid.

Adulthood became flustered, adults have changed so much recently. All of a sudden the markers of adulthood that the creature knew flew out the window. Was adulthood just a label? Did it mean anything in the totality of one's life?

Adulthood: So we have established that adulthood is just a label?

Michelle: Yes, a label to describe someone over the age of 18. But there's nothing specifically I think. I don't think that there's anything specific that makes one adult more adult than the other.

Adulthood: Ricardo do you feel like having kids will make you feel more like an adult?

Ricardo: Sort of. Because I know I've explained what an adult is. And while yeah, having kids kind of feels like it because you are caring for another human being. That is from you. Or even if it's not from you, it's like you chose to take care of that human being. Yeah. And it's kind of a huge responsibility. So I feel that you should definitely have a mindset of like, okay, I…

Adulthood interjected again.

Adulthood: Because you’ve experienced it already.

Ricardo: Yea because it feels like it but at the same time it doesn’t.

Adulthood: Do you think it’s because it’s not new to you?

Ricardo: Honestly, when we would have those talks about having kids at a young age? Like no, I don't want that. Because well, one I kind of wanted to have a break and also two. Two I just felt that such a big responsibility that I don't know. I don't know if I'd ever be ready to be honest. I feel like no one really is ready to be a parent. But you're ready. But I think it's just scary. Because for me when I used to think it was fun to have a child. Oh, that's over. Like, I have to dedicate all my time and all that to a child. Because that's my responsibility. You know, I chose to do that. And now these are the consequences. Yeah, like, for lack of a better word. 

Ricardo: And so now you have to do everything in your power to keep this human safe. Because if not, they're gonna take them away from you. Or like, it's also like abuse and all that stuff. But I don't want them till at least I'm like, past 25 because then we're more responsible. Yeah, I feel I would be a little more responsible. And my, our biggest thing, like when I would talk about it, is I want to be financially stable. And right now, I'm not. And I don't know when I'll be. I'm hoping, I'm grateful for this opportunity to be living here (Michelle’s parent’s home). And hopefully, that helps. I know it's going to help but that was like, initially the goal because I don't want to be in debt or I don't want to be broke when having a child. And I think that has to do how I was raised and like, the way I grew up and not having a lot. We had enough but not a lot, not a lot. And I want to be able to give my kids everything, like who doesn't, you know.

Maybe this was it, maybe adulthood really is just a label, and maybe nothing you do makes you more adult than someone else. But maybe, being an adult is being able to make important choices responsibly. Maybe it’s being able to compromise with your spouse about super critical issues like kids. Emotional maturity and the alchemization of fear are perhaps built up for situations like this. 

Adulthood: So then Ricardo, will you make your future kids go to college?

Ricardo: No, no, no, ultimately, I want them to do what they want to do. I am a big believer in that. And my parents, they're very big on, we will support you in whatever you want to do, which I'm super grateful for. I just know that the college thing was more of like, just try it out, because you might like it, you're saying all the bad stuff about it, but you haven't even done it. And, that is true. I'm also a believer in don't knock it till you try it. So for my kids, if they decide they don't want to go to college, and they want to work, or they want to do whatever they want to do, I fully support them. 

Ricardo: And I'll support them as much as I can. Because I'm not going to leave them out hanging dry. I want them to have time to just have fun, really, because life is kinda miserable. 

Everyone laughed.

Ricardo: No, not fully. There is a lot of beauty to it. But I feel like the way life is envisioned and the system that we live in is not the best. And I feel that we're meant to enjoy things. A lot more than the way we do as a human. Yeah, I don't think we're supposed to be in our little monkey suits and going into a job for the most of our fucking week and being like, “Ah, I barely have money to buy food. This is great.” It's horrible. Like, I think I just want to be butt ass naked, in the jungle, eatin’ some grapes and enjoying some flowers. Sounds amazing.

 Michelle: Sounds good to me, too.

Ricardo explained that his younger sister Nala had tried to take college classes in high school, to get ahead. But the system kept failing them and no one got back to them. All of the red tape of college for both Ricardo and Nala that sent them away, probably sends a lot of other people away from college too. 

Maybe the tangled mess of our college system is why one, people are going to college less and less and two, the image of the adult is changing. People aren’t using the systems that are thought to make you functioning adults, because these systems don’t work like they used to. 30 to 40 years ago a college degree made you royalty, but today it gives you a checkmark like Michelle. Your application gets put into a different pile. The college system can be discouraging and so heavily traumatizing that when people get their bachelors, it almost doesn’t feel worth it. 

Maybe being an adult is having the courage to forge your own path through life without the crumbling systems of old. Maybe it’s all about adaptation and optimism to get you to your goals sans the failing college system that leaves you with debt and a paper. 

Adulthood: Michelle, will you make your future kids go to college? 

Michelle: Never, never. I will never make them do anything that they do not want to do. If they want to go, I will be at every parent meeting, I will be an advocate for them. I will help them with everything that they need to do, I will proofread the emails, and I will pay for all the applications. If they do not want to go to college, then give me your plan. That's all I'm asking. Because I don't think school is for everyone. But if they want to go to vocational, awesome, if they really just enjoy working at the grocery store, all right. Some people really enjoy that and that’s okay. And it's you know, if they really want to be a butcher, show me how to do that. Am I going to learn how to get blood out of white clothes? That would be great. So I mean, there's no reason to make your kid do anything, especially because we're literally reaping the consequences of this stuff. He's gonna marry me and inherit my debt.  

Adulthood seemed to be getting ready to leave, and it asked them. “No sitting on the fence, would you recommend college?”

Michelle paused for a moment, mulling over all the negatives and positives and let out a sheepish, “yes.”

Ricardo did not hesitate, “I’m gonna stick with my values, no.”

And with that the cloud was gone. The creature had vanished and though over an hour had passed, time felt like it just began to move again. Michelle and Ricardo served leftover pizza and spaghetti. They sat and ate looking at each other with reassurance. I think this conversation was a good reflective exercise for them. Ricardo’s choice of abandoning college was just as valuable as Michelle going back. 

Fear for others, emotional growth, children, marriage, and college are not universal experiences. Time, however, is. The college system fails people, but it also makes doctors and nurses. Everyone ages, and life makes you learn whether you want to or not. I think the room realized that no one knows what an adult is, all you know is that you might know when you are one. 

Maybe when Michelle and Ricardo are wrinkly, balding, and have dentures, maybe then, they might feel like adults.